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Re: IMPORTANT: Play Removal Notice

By Legendruthless
10/19/2022 12:46 pm
setherick wrote:
I don't understand the comment about the FZ. It was statistically speaking the single best defense in the game. Gave up almost no passing yards and contained the run. I hate that it was removed because the game remains broken and the FZ highlighted the brokenness. But it's a reasonable compromise to stream defenses killing interest.


I think it was a good move to remove it. I realized how powerful it was because of how good it was against so many formations. There are better plays for each formation I believe but how consistently good it was against so many made it easy to gameplan.

Re: IMPORTANT: Play Removal Notice

By setherick - League Admin
10/19/2022 3:54 pm
Legendruthless wrote:
setherick wrote:
I don't understand the comment about the FZ. It was statistically speaking the single best defense in the game. Gave up almost no passing yards and contained the run. I hate that it was removed because the game remains broken and the FZ highlighted the brokenness. But it's a reasonable compromise to stream defenses killing interest.


I think it was a good move to remove it. I realized how powerful it was because of how good it was against so many formations. There are better plays for each formation I believe but how consistently good it was against so many made it easy to gameplan.


Right, I agree that it was the right thing to do. But it did highlight how broken the game is right now. The play really shouldn't work or work effectively outside of the goal line. It brings both safeties up in to M2M on the 4 and 5, which means they are either covering the backfield or the TE and RB. And then the OLBs play a flat zone. Any OC worth his salt would destroy it by running go routes on the outside corners and then a seam, deep cross, or post in the middle of the field where the safeties should be.

In fact, WAY back in 4.3, the HB Flare was the ultimate play to pick the FZ and other plays that brought the safeties up because the QB hit the TE seam route ~50% of the time for 20 yards a pass. I routine had 1,000 yard TEs at 257# running seam routes. These are impossible to run anymore.

Re: IMPORTANT: Play Removal Notice

By GrandadB
10/19/2022 7:08 pm
jdavidbakr wrote:
I'm willing to wait for, say, a week, if you can convince me that this is the best way to handle it. What I don't want to happen is to have a week of games where people who were unaware of this as an exploit try to take advantage of it and make the next week's worth of games a wild west. I chose to keep the timeline extremely short because it seems to me that if you are taking advantage of the exploit you are kind of violating the integrity of the game overall, and you will not really be effected by it if you're gameplans are well balanced. But I'm open to hearing arguments that I'm overstating that.


for custom leagues, the LA can delay the sim, if requested and for a good reason.

Re: IMPORTANT: Play Removal Notice

By GrandadB
10/19/2022 7:27 pm
setherick wrote:
I don't understand the comment about the FZ. It was statistically speaking the single best defense in the game. Gave up almost no passing yards and contained the run. I hate that it was removed because the game remains broken and the FZ highlighted the brokenness. But it's a reasonable compromise to stream defenses killing interest.


I was as guilty as anyone for overusing the FZ, especially in leagues with more than a couple of other teams/owners who were using it extensively. Not for the ease of gameplan, but because it always had the best avg per play overall than any other defense. There wasnt much of a challenge anymore to defensive play selection which was already limited enough. Anyone using a full 30 defensive plays with a fairly even distribution of calls is dead meat vs an offense with a select # of plays and over-rides.

FB Dive? yep, used it also, had to vs other teams that did, I dont think I ever missed a 2 pt conversion with it (thats not NFL simulation) and it was practically automatic for 0-1 on 3rd & 4th downs, if you didnt make it on 3rd (only if your opponent had the play/overide to stop it) you would most likely make it on 4th. And I know there was a way of reducing its effectiveness, but over 90% of the rest of the people playing this game did not know. You can say its their fault for not doing the research/homework and all, but what that led to is the same two guys playing for the CC and LC across several leagues we were both in. BORING. There are those who have played and love the game of football, and there are those who havnt, but get off on setting a scoring record, win % record, and are more happier winning by 50 or more points as opposed to a good competitive game with the outcome still in doubt going into the 4th quarter. I like the latter a lot more, and yeah, there is a place for "blowouts", they happen in RL, but not 70% of more of an NFL teams games, and very rarely does a team score more than 60 in one game in a season.
Last edited at 10/19/2022 7:29 pm

Re: IMPORTANT: Play Removal Notice

By Bruno77
10/19/2022 7:28 pm
GrandadB wrote:
setherick wrote:
I don't understand the comment about the FZ. It was statistically speaking the single best defense in the game. Gave up almost no passing yards and contained the run. I hate that it was removed because the game remains broken and the FZ highlighted the brokenness. But it's a reasonable compromise to stream defenses killing interest.


I was as guilty as anyone for overusing the FZ, especially in leagues with more than a couple of other teams/owners who were using it extensively. Not for the ease of gameplan, but because it always had the best avg per play overall than any other defense. There wasnt much of a challenge anymore to defensive play selection which was already limited enough. Anyone using a full 30 defensive plays with a fairly even distribution of calls is dead meat vs an offense with a select # of plays and over-rides.

FB Dive? yep, used it also, had to vs other teams that did, I dont think I ever missed a 2 pt conversion with it (thats not NFL simulation) and it was practically automatic for 0-1 on 3rd & 4th downs, if you didnt make it on 3rd (only if your opponent had the play/overide to stop it) you would most likely make it on 4th. And I know there was a way of reducing its effectiveness, but over 90% of the rest of the people playing this game did not know. You can say its their fault for not doing the research/homework and all, but what the led to is the same two guys playing for the CC and LC across several leagues we were both in. BORING. There are those who have played and love the game of football, and there are those who havnt, but get off on setting a scoring record, win % record, and are more happier winning by 50 or more points as opposed to a good competitive game with the outcome still in doubt going into the 4th quarter. I like the latter a lot more, and yeah, there is a place for "blowouts", they happen in RL, but not 70% of more of an NFL teams games, and very rarely does a team score more than 60 in one game in a season.


The same two guys are still going to be in the conference/league championship games. That ain't changing. The best owners are going to adapt to the tools they now have and find ways to win games, and will arguably find it easier since FZ at least provided a base for newer owners to start with to be in the middle of the pack.

I'm actually enjoying this change right now, running my own analytics on the game + testing my own concepts.
Last edited at 10/19/2022 7:33 pm

Re: IMPORTANT: Play Removal Notice

By CaptainFarrar89
10/19/2022 8:47 pm
I honestly didn't even know that these plays were OP and were able to exploit the system. I struggle hard to understand and figure out anything with game planning (to me, it's all gibberish and I struggle) so if this brings teams/owners a bit closer then I say why not.

Re: IMPORTANT: Play Removal Notice

By Bruno77
10/19/2022 9:08 pm
CaptainFarrar89 wrote:
I honestly didn't even know that these plays were OP and were able to exploit the system. I struggle hard to understand and figure out anything with game planning (to me, it's all gibberish and I struggle) so if this brings teams/owners a bit closer then I say why not.


I'm for the change, but I don't think it's going to bring teams and owners closer. The better owners will find new ways to exploit the game that other owners might not do themselves.

Re: IMPORTANT: Play Removal Notice

By CaptainFarrar89
10/20/2022 12:33 am
Bruno77 wrote:
CaptainFarrar89 wrote:
I honestly didn't even know that these plays were OP and were able to exploit the system. I struggle hard to understand and figure out anything with game planning (to me, it's all gibberish and I struggle) so if this brings teams/owners a bit closer then I say why not.


I'm for the change, but I don't think it's going to bring teams and owners closer. The better owners will find new ways to exploit the game that other owners might not do themselves.


That could be the case as well. Won’t doubt that it will happen

Re: IMPORTANT: Play Removal Notice

By Legendruthless
10/20/2022 12:53 am
CaptainFarrar89 wrote:
Bruno77 wrote:
CaptainFarrar89 wrote:
I honestly didn't even know that these plays were OP and were able to exploit the system. I struggle hard to understand and figure out anything with game planning (to me, it's all gibberish and I struggle) so if this brings teams/owners a bit closer then I say why not.


I'm for the change, but I don't think it's going to bring teams and owners closer. The better owners will find new ways to exploit the game that other owners might not do themselves.


That could be the case as well. Won’t doubt that it will happen


There are a lot of owners out there willing to help you. Me included. Can get you up to date on all the important ways to win. Message me if interested.

Re: IMPORTANT: Play Removal Notice

By Bruno77
10/20/2022 7:06 am
CaptainFarrar89 wrote:
Bruno77 wrote:
CaptainFarrar89 wrote:
I honestly didn't even know that these plays were OP and were able to exploit the system. I struggle hard to understand and figure out anything with game planning (to me, it's all gibberish and I struggle) so if this brings teams/owners a bit closer then I say why not.


I'm for the change, but I don't think it's going to bring teams and owners closer. The better owners will find new ways to exploit the game that other owners might not do themselves.


That could be the case as well. Won’t doubt that it will happen


I will also do similarly