If that's the rule, that's the rule, still need someone to spot it happening.

We know it's possible to do so - as I said, game almost encourages it as you can allow other position players in the searches. If you see a DB with what looks like decent D line stats, then theoretically you should be allowed to convert. You'd expect it would be easier for players to gain weight than lose it and through the process, the player loses speed.

The issue arises during the transition period where the speed advantage is retained. Until the game engine more accurately models the dynamic - massively underweight DE lacks the weight to maximise say a high strength rating - then there's no in game solution.

As I said, I'm happy not to use them until the weight is more reasonable and the speed comes down. It may be they'd then be better off at LBs.

I just think an outright ban in and of itself restricts "ingenuity". A solution allowing out of the box thinking whilst negating the issue caused in a certain circumstance is needed.

This.


I keep saying , this is our league , we know what’s fair and what isn’t , within reason . If we all keep talking there will be no problems , this is a great example of problem sharing .

DL or OL?

I agree, but as seen with some asking questions, there are less experience players. So let's discuss and come up with a workable "rule".

PROBLEM
=========

Lighter players are generally faster than heavier players. A CB would be lighter than a DE, ergo generally faster. Playing a CB at DE thus can give an advantage due to the way the blocking/pass rush mechanism works, speed enabling the block attempt to be evaded.

There is no benefit to a DE being played at CB as this problem does not give an advantage in the inverse way.

SOLUTION
==========

Enumerate for each position an expected weight range. Use these weight ranges to specify pecisely which unconverted position can be used there - this is already a "rule", can be maybe expanded upon more - put weight ranges in, consider other positional issues?

PROBLEM
=========

When converting players, ie a CB with good D line skills, a player can only gain a max of around 50 lbs tops. Each lb in weight affects speed to a "known" degree. As a consequence, a 95 speed, 204 lb may become say a 85 speed 254lb D lineman over time. During the transition to the new position, speed will reduce as the weight increases - thus in early stages, the speed remains higher than it would be at the new position playing weight, conferring an advantage due to the weight / speed combination.

A natural D lineman can meet the weight criteria for the position and have high Acc / Speed stats; I've found that to not be the generality, exceptions do exist.


The weight gain does not thus dramatically reduce his speed, which can then lead an average CB to be a very effective pass rusher due to the pass rush dynamics in the game engine. Whilst this is an issue with the game engine, the question is, is it a deliberate exploit or a good faith attempt to get players in their best positions? The game "encourages" conversions by allowing you to search for players including those from different positions.

POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS
==================

1) Ban all position conversions.

2) Allow all conversion from a higher weight position to a lower weight position. For all else, enumerate the allowed changes, ie a CB can be converted to a LB spot but not a DL spot.

3) Establish a "register" of conversions. Create say a forum thread, "NFL season X proposed player position changes". GMs have the responsibility of putting details in; Player X, his stats, original position, new position. Community can then respond with their thoughts, a yay or a nay with reasoning.

Establish player weight ranges, make a rule a permanent {POSITION} must be between X and Y lbs. Any player outside that range can remain on the roster but cannot play in a regular or post season game. Any violations lead to a series of warnings, eventually leading to league expulsion - the rationale for this is that it enables the GM to rectify a failed conversion but converting elsewhere, ie CB -> DE failed, GM could then try to maybe convert to LB.


Of these solutions off the top of my head, the third one could be preferrable; it engages the league community, enables knowledge and opinions to be passed along plus it allows the GM a route to rectify. It would be great if the big boss was able to allow this kind of thing to be a user defined rule in leagues.

I’m just away right now so can’t go through all this.
Will do as soon as I get the time

Not like me to ramble or anything...

I don't think we need to complicate this. Here's my proposal:

Existing rules plus weight limit of 265 for DL.

I think that's safer than a ban on converting DBs, because you don't always know a player's original position when you sign him.

Also, it isn't just that a player's speed rating might be higher. Players with less weight move faster — setherick can explain this better, but as I understand it, a CB with 75 speed is going to move faster than a DE with 80 speed.

Yeah, I oversimplified my post, tbh, it's a combination of position and speed. If the rating was something like a percentage of max position speed, that would make perfect sense.

That said, if it goes off assigned position, then wouldn't a converted player then be treated as that position - guess I need an example.

Say max CB speed was 24mph, max DE speed 20mph.

CB with 75 speed - if that's a percentage, then 24*0.75 = 18mph max

Move to DE, that speed will only decline over time, but even if it remains at 75, 20 * .75 = 15mph.

So, if a CB has position changed by GM to DE as opposed to being a CB being picked at BE, wouldn't the game engine have considered the position change already, thus applying the lower actual speed value?

Separate response to separate point.

Is there thus scope to extend that view across other positions or is it only due to one specific problem that's been identified?

In an ideal world, the game engine would've evolved so those heavily underweight playing as D line would get smashed...

A lighter player will move faster than a heavier player with the same speed rating, regardless of position.

This is about competitive disadvantage. I've been in leagues where someone finds the fastest DB they can, regardless of whether the player has any talent, and moves him to DL so they can win a bunch of games they shouldn't win. I've done this myself, to prove a point or fight back. It's a quick way to ruin a league.