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Re: Completed Trade: Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Pittsburgh Steelers

By VillagerChris
1/14/2021 10:56 am
Are you are a snake, not sorry.

Re: Completed Trade: Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Pittsburgh Steelers

By Gustoon
1/14/2021 10:57 am
VillagerChris wrote:
Are you are a snake, not sorry.


Ha ha righto.

Re: Completed Trade: Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Pittsburgh Steelers

By hkpman7180
1/14/2021 11:00 am
I did tried to stay out of it .... but sorry i have to set the fact right. All my notes are starting with >>>>>>

Gustoon wrote:
Not a big fan of posting PMs (private messages) but here we are. This league is transparent, so you've opened up a challenge. Which is fine if not slightly passive aggressive.

VillagerChris wrote:
Can I challenge the last trade with tampa and pittsburg?

I don't know a whole lot but neither of those players are really worth anything let alone 3 picks including a 3rd rounder
I actually just tried to make the trade and with the exact same trade was 122 pts short, but my draft picks are valued less, so if the trade meter was on this would most likely have gone through and as I've said, personally I think Pitt got the better end of this deal.

>>>>>> Yes you can challenge each and every trade.... as the GM of the team in this league and game you have that right.. just need to make you point based on what you felt its unfair so fellow GM can see it and can vote based on it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

On another issue.. why is this Hk guy allowed to keep doing this.. i received a dozen offers from this guy all very lopsided and seeing's how he has 50 picks in 2 seasons and just keeps kicking the can down the road.. is enough never enough?

There are no limits to how many trades a player can make in any league, its part and parcel of the game. As I told you if you don't want to receive offers from him, drop him a PM and let him know that you don't wish to engage in any trades with him, no issues.
Trade rules were brought in to stop players loading up on round 1, 2 an.d 3 picks as I and other league members deemed it detrimental to the game


>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sorry for the lengthy reply to this point but since you made comment that you have received many lopsided offers from Bucs i am putting whole history to share facts .....

It’s ok for you to speak up and also have difference of opinion but you stated I have send you many trades and all lopsided so I want to share the facts –

- I have offered you 9 total trade offers but in reality 4 instance of trades… as some were just different options for same player)

 1/1 offered you 3 trade as different option involving same player – your QB on the block…(each was sent with comment as do with any trade and received your reply on clarification). You had your QB on the block with specific ask and you accepted one of the option/offer that you liked the most so other two was cancelled. Since you accepted the trade I take that you will agree that it was decent offer so this was not lopsided or any issue as such.
 1-4 I send you 3 different options for same player WR - Dandrea (again with my comments on each options) based on our comment back/forth realized that you don’t value him same and post some of your comment I sent you following last message… “ I replied to explain.. you have rejected the trade and i have not offered since than... so all good... i will manage the cap and will be fine... Anyway will stop the thread... Good Luck with draft “. I will say this is what you felt my ask of 1st and 3rd for WR was too much as did not valued him same as I did…..plus we have some comments which did not go well as we both had our opinion so i take it this is where you felt it was lopsided but as I said in my last message will close the thread and will wish you good luck with draft… This was my last offer to you for any player.
 1-6 I send you 2 trade offering you 2nd round 12th or 19th pick for two 3rd round pick which you declined due to cap management. You or anyone will agree that there is nothing lopsided here as offering 12th pick (44th pick in draft) for two 3rd round is pretty fair ask.
 1-7 I sent you trade for 3rd round for 2 -4th rounder you declined by stating its fair trade just due to cap management you will decline. Since you agreed its fair offer so its safe to say this was also not lopsided.


I have attempted 4 trades with you - one time for your QB which was accepted by you… two times was just involving picks offering you higher round pick for two lower round picks which also as you have indicated was fair offers but due to cap issue you rejected them...… so only trade in question was me offering you D.Dandrea for 1st and 3rd, which may not be what you liked but not lopsided.

You are new to the league and I have no way to know your style or how your value the player/position/picks so offer of 1st round and 3rd round for the Starting ..young rising WR at what i thought was good starting offer… but once I learned based on your comments I have not offered you single trade involving any players…. (it does not and should not matter but i acquired him for 1st rd, swap of 2nd and starting CB and starting OL a season ago... so i paid lot more than what i asked for him.... sharing so you can see 1st and 3rd had context and was not lopsided)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Yep you sure can challenge.

Looking at it it does look slightly more weighted towards Pitt (in favour).
The other thing you have to take into account is owners with different weights values, for example I have the FB as 72/76 and the QB as 56/66, no doubts your weights will be different.

HKP has been doing this for seasons. some people like it some don't. I'm not a fan of it and the trading rules are largely attributed for him.

He's not good at game planning but is a good GM. I'm glad you've come to me as it can be tiresome getting offer after offer, lol its what he does. However if you don't want to receive any more from just tell him, he's an ok guy and does try to help out the less fortunate teams.

Gus



Cool, thanks for the response.



It's seem like this GM is 100% protecting this owner not just simply allowing it happen. I'm not sure what to what to think about a commissioner who says I can challenge a trade and then in the same msg tried to convince me that the trade is actually in favor of the guy I'm challenging... and then doesn't. I know the excuses are gonna fly but that's what they are excuses.

>>>>>>>I request you one thing... Commish for this league has been one of the most respected, involved and fair person .... i have had my trades challenged and also cancelled by Commish its fact and you can see it for yourself..... plus all the trade rule you see has been in place is largely to make sure this remain fair and competitive league (which has worked as i have won only 2 Super Bowl) . So you can rest assured that he is one of the most involved....fair and respected Commish. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Under no circumstances should that trade, as well as a dozen others should have gone through for that guy. He has 50 picks in 2 seasons and he just keeps kicking them down the road. I'm aware that the vast majority of the players don't care, because they don't really care much about the game in general... is this a regular occurrence with these two?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> First of all.. you have right challenge any and all trade if you choose too... and it will be put to vote and i have and will always accept the result.....same time you will find out over the period that as much as i am hated for being most aggressive GM... trslick is one of the most friendly and respected GM in our league....



If you have an issue with a trade, just make a post (in the trade message post) detailing why you think its unfair, as yet all you've said is that in your opinion its unfair, how? Back it up with facts instead of accusations.


>>>>>>>>>>>>Please make sure points and put the trade for Vote... i am 100% ok with the fate that everyone decide.


I tried to hold back on the reply but could not and wrote this big note just to clarify …. That yes I am very aggressive GM(as I am not a good coach) but always played by rules and also have always respected people's view and style... once someone tells me that they will not want to trade or don’t want offer on particular player i have not sent them offers.... I did send you initial 3 offers for WR as we had successful trade of QB just few days ago.... but once i got your feedback over PM i have not sent you single trade involving player..... I will close this by saying….Please go had make your point and put this trade for vote by all owner and also please put any other trade you feel was unfair to vote by league…… welcome to the league and looking forward to cut throat rivalry in NFC South….. love your passion for the game & your team. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Re: Completed Trade: Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Pittsburgh Steelers

By CrazyRazor
1/14/2021 12:31 pm
VillagerChris wrote:




For the record, does anyone have any complaints about this trade?


I looked at the trade & thought Pittsburgh got the better deal. Two 2nd year players for a 3rd, 4th, & 5th Rd pick? They're a bit slow, but they could start on many teams.
That's my opinion. Usually, I'll say something, if I think one of Tampa's trades is unfair.

Re: Completed Trade: Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Pittsburgh Steelers

By CrazyRazor
1/14/2021 12:40 pm
With that much "sass", I would've loved to play him in our division. :D

Re: Completed Trade: Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Pittsburgh Steelers

By tjbevill
1/14/2021 7:03 pm
I am good with this trade as well. There have been a lot worse out there than this. 3 and 4 round picks are dangerous IMO. You could easily end up getting hit with cap issues on a bust.

Re: Completed Trade: Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Pittsburgh Steelers

By outdooreli
1/14/2021 8:27 pm
Wow, some unexpected drama on the league chat today. Seems to be a lot of that going around these days...

Anyway, first off, calling our league commish a snake or insinuating he's a cheater or protecting a GM is hogwash, horsepucky, bullcrap and other non-swear swear words. If you have qualms with Gustoon, I say good bye and good riddance. Or as Willie Wonka put it
"Good Day Sir! you lose! I said good day!"

Second, I like HKP from what I know of him, but that doesn't mean I always agree with his trade offers. For example, he thinks my QB is trash and tries to offer me new QBs every year. I like my QB and think he's a Hall of Famer, so we agree to disagree.

What Villager missed in this, and most of HKPs deals, is that 5th rounder. That's the golden ticket. The 3rd and 4ths can be risky and hurt cap. That 5th rounder could boom and then either he or the starter he replaces is on the trade block. HKP will snag up lots of 5th rounders, turn them into a handful of quality players to trade for better picks, and then turn them all into a high 1st rounder or two to keep his franchise humming.

I really don't know how he does it. But I don't care that he does.
When I have rebuilt teams from scratch and basically had a fire sale, I still never got as much out of them as HKP can.

So, anyway, hope everyone is doing well these days. Cheers.

Re: Completed Trade: Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Pittsburgh Steelers

By hkpman7180
1/15/2021 8:52 am
It was busy day........ :) my comments inline


outdooreli wrote:
Wow, some unexpected drama on the league chat today. Seems to be a lot of that going around these days...

Anyway, first off, calling our league commish a snake or insinuating he's a cheater or protecting a GM is hogwash, horsepucky, bullcrap and other non-swear swear words. If you have qualms with Gustoon, I say good bye and good riddance. Or as Willie Wonka put it
"Good Day Sir! you lose! I said good day!"

>>>>>>>>> Totally agree as we have one of the most respected and fair commish and fun league >>>>>

Second, I like HKP from what I know of him, but that doesn't mean I always agree with his trade offers. For example, he thinks my QB is trash and tries to offer me new QBs every year. I like my QB and think he's a Hall of Famer, so we agree to disagree.

>>>>>>>> You will still get QB offer... just kidding... That is part of knowing fellow owner as we all have different style... but we co-exist and respect each other.... >>>>>>>>>>>

What Villager missed in this, and most of HKPs deals, is that 5th rounder. That's the golden ticket. The 3rd and 4ths can be risky and hurt cap. That 5th rounder could boom and then either he or the starter he replaces is on the trade block. HKP will snag up lots of 5th rounders, turn them into a handful of quality players to trade for better picks, and then turn them all into a high 1st rounder or two to keep his franchise humming.

>>>>>>> Yep he missed the point that while i build my team through early round picks.... i enable it through lots of good lower round picks or undrafted FA who booms and enable me to make trades as indicated. >>>>>>>>>>>>

I really don't know how he does it. But I don't care that he does.
When I have rebuilt teams from scratch and basically had a fire sale, I still never got as much out of them as HKP can.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Its honestly very simple but time consuming process.... plus all depends on where you want to spend your time build team or coaching or balanced.... i am tilted towards being GM so i honestly study every 32 teams roster to make note of each teams need....and than i offer trades that are very contextual..... so it has good chance to be accepted ... i also offer some shoot in dark offers to learn too..... Let me give you couple of example

1) Last season i offered you in-prime DL Seth Joyner for 1st round.... as i saw that your team was on rise but your defense was still needing anchor to hold the line. So i knew it had good chance to be accepted

2) This season you posted that you were going to move all your early picks.... but i could not find any good trade early on but last day i found match offering you young developing starting quality FS, decent young OL and 2nd round... now this saved you from auto pick so it had high chance of it being accepted, but this trade put me with 4 picks which would not be possible so i moved it to KC for their 2-1st pick, than i flipped that pick along with starting quality OL for future 1st rounder.... all this circle but in end all of us got what we wanted from just one pick enabled by 4 trades :)

Packers - avoided auto pick.. got starting quality FS, future 2nd round and back up OL for low 1st round

KC - they got starting RB but he did not boomed as they thought...even though pick is not something Bucs control but keeping that in mind i traded with KC again sending R.Hair, young starting DE, Starting quality QB plus future 2nd round for their 1st.

Broncos - got 2 starting OL from this deal

Bucs got future 1st round..

This is how simple it was but it is time consuming and also requires knowing needs for each team... plus also being honest that if big trade fails for one party you have to try to compensate them in next trade... this way other owner knows that they can rest easy and their back is covered.

Said that i will still say you need QB for future >>>>>> just kidding... Good Luck

So, anyway, hope everyone is doing well these days. Cheers.


>>>>> This is most important... hope each of you are happy and healthy during this unprecedented times we are faced with but let's hope it will soon be behind us.... till than stay safe.

Re: Completed Trade: Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Pittsburgh Steelers

By trslick
1/15/2021 1:35 pm
Looks like I'm late, only because the deal looked fine to me and had no idea someone had a
problem with it! I don't trade alot and when I do push the button, would like to think I know what
is good or bad.The reason I don't trade much, just for what is being said here.Gus you do a fine
job and should not have to swim through all those "negetive waves man"!

Re: Completed Trade: Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Pittsburgh Steelers

By hkpman7180
1/15/2021 1:43 pm
trslick wrote:
Looks like I'm late, only because the deal looked fine to me and had no idea someone had a
problem with it! I don't trade alot and when I do push the button, would like to think I know what
is good or bad.The reason I don't trade much, just for what is being said here.Gus you do a fine
job and should not have to swim through all those "negetive waves man"!


You are one of the most respected owner... i know you trade less but dont let this comments stop you from trading .... Good Luck for the season..

I know trade was good .. i just moved him as i had many QB's thats all... i drafted 3 QB in the draft alone... nothing else.