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re: what's the difference?

By Infinity on Trial
7/01/2016 9:39 am
Hoping someone can help me understand the extreme difference in my QB's play from one week to the next.

Week 3 vs a talented team and championship-caliber coach: https://mfn19.myfootballnow.com/box/view/2107
QB goes 17 of 26 for 274 yards and 3 TDs while taking 2 sacks. QBR: 138.94

Week 4 vs a solid but much less talented team: https://mfn19.myfootballnow.com/box/view/2115
QB goes 13 of 33 for 172 yards and 2 INTs while taking 3 sacks. QBR: 31.38

I understand a guy can have a particularly bad or good game from time to time, but this seems to happen a lot to me, across multiple leagues, and with an extraordinary range between highs and lows.

One person suggests this is a result of play knowledge (I brought in a new QB this year), but that doesn't seem to explain the disparity in performances. If the bad performance were a result of him struggling with plays, I would expect him to be bad all the time until figuring it out.

He also had a 130+ rating in the season opener before throwing 3 picks in week two, so maybe I should limit my passing game to odd numbered weeks and run every down in even weeks.

Re: re: what's the difference?

By setherick - League Admin
7/01/2016 7:41 pm
To be fair, the beat down you put on me in week 3 was well deserved. My team isn't all that great this year. I figured we'd nosedive after I installed a new playbook, so hopefully by week 8, I'll be competitive.

I still say a lot of the random craziness is due to lack of play knowledge. The only team I have that performs consistently well is in 16 where my team has almost full play knowledge of the offensive plays that I run.

Re: re: what's the difference?

By WarEagle
7/03/2016 8:24 am
From my experience, there are some items that have a small impact, such as:
play knowledge (offense and defense)
position experience
skill (obviously, but not as much as you'd think)
skill of the defense you are playing against

However, I think that the biggest factor in determining if your QB will play well is PURE RANDOMNESS.

No matter how good, experienced, knowlegeable, etc. my QB or entire offense is, I have found nothing that has any impact on how consistent my QB play will be.
Last edited at 7/03/2016 8:25 am

Re: re: what's the difference?

By setherick - League Admin
7/03/2016 8:36 am
Play knowledge is important not because it adds that big of a boost, but because of the things that it does control for QBs.

For example, QBs don't throw the hot route without a lot of play knowledge. Since the DL is overpowered, being able to go to a hot route is absolutely essential right now to avoiding at least one sack.

The second thing play knowledge controls (up to 15%) is reaction time. I assume that this means how quickly the QB throws ball after choosing his target. Again, this is the difference between a sack and a pass (which will probably be intercepted because the QB chooses to throw into double or triple coverage downfield most of the time instead of the WIDE OPEN UNDERNEATH RECEIVER WHO WILL GO FOR 20+ YARDS not that I'm bitter).

Re: re: what's the difference?

By WarEagle
7/03/2016 8:42 am
I had a team with one of the best QBs in the league, paired with very good receivers and OL, where I ran the same offensive plays for 3 seasons straight (or more).

My QB was no more consistent in the last season than he was in the 2nd.
One game he'd have 5 TDs, the next game he'd have 6 INTS.

It was this league / player that convinced me to significantly decrease how much I value QBs.

Last edited at 7/03/2016 8:45 am

Re: re: what's the difference?

By setherick - League Admin
7/03/2016 8:47 am
WarEagle wrote:
I had a team with one of the best QBs in the league, paired with very good receivers and OL, where I ran the same offensive plays for 3 seasons straight (or more).

My QB was no more consistent in the last season than he was in the 2nd.
One game he'd have 5 TDs, the next game he'd have 6 INTS.

It was this league / player that convinced me to significantly decrease how much I value QBs.



My best QBs are usually the ones I weight <80. Anyone >80 seems to **** *****.

I've considered going to a set of weights that value accuracy at 100 and scramble at 50 and nothing else. But my QBs with <70 accuracy will often outperform my QBs with 100 accuracy, so I'm really not sure what attributes are used with QBs. It's probably like Discipline and Arm Strength or some weird combination of attributes that we would never consider.
Last edited at 7/03/2016 8:50 am

Re: re: what's the difference?

By WarEagle
7/03/2016 8:59 am
setherick wrote:

I've considered going to a set of weights that value accuracy at 100 and scramble at 50 and nothing else. But my QBs with <70 accuracy will often outperform my QBs with 100 accuracy, so I'm really not sure what attributes are used with QBs.


I've come to believe that none of the skills matter for QBs, except avoid fumble. It's all random.

My QBs with 50 accuracy are just as "accurate" as my QBs with 100 accuracy.
Nothing can explain that if the skill ratings actually matter.

Even with all these opinions of mine, I still try to get highly rated QBs in the hope/expectation that one day this will change, I'm just not willing to give up too much to get one.
Last edited at 7/03/2016 9:00 am

Re: re: what's the difference?

By Brrexkl
7/03/2016 6:29 pm
I can't help but feel that Arm Strength is super important.

Benny Worrell is my QB, and I was blessed to land a Team with a QB. His Weights from the Previous Owner had him as a 91/92.

Everything is 95+, except Arm Strength which is 89. He's had a very very horrible Season. Now some of that is likely my Early to Mid Season Game Planning/Play Book, but you'd think at some point a Talented QB would make Plays.

Re: re: what's the difference?

By Chipped
7/03/2016 7:21 pm
Counter examples to some points made here:

Lawrence Simmons (https://cust10.myfootballnow.com/player/496): Signed in 2021, 119.77 rating in 2021 preseason, 104.05 rating in 2021 season with 6012 yards passing, 62 TDs to 27 INT on a 61.4% completion percentage, so play knowledge is probably not as important.. 79 arm strength, 84 passing release, 77 accuracy, 82 look off defense, 84 FOV, 52 scrambling skill, 95 intelligence. 82 overall by my weights.

Dennis Sommers (https://mfn23.myfootballnow.com/player/2607): 102.51 career rating, 62% completion percentage, 138 TD to 56 INT in 5 seasons. Just 62 in passing release, 58 intelligence, 7 scrambling skill, 58 intelligence, and 69 in arm strength. Balanced by 99 FOV and 100 accuracy, 85 look off defense. Looks like FOV, accuracy, and look off defense were more important than intelligence, passing release, scrambling skill, and arm strength intelligence. 74 overall on player page.

James Mitchell (https://cust21.myfootballnow.com/player/494): 111.66 passer rating in first season with new team, 4370 yards passing, 41 TD to 14 INT, so play knowledge is probably not as important. 100 pass accuracy, 96 FOV, 77 look off defense, 79 passing release, 71 intelligence, but just 61 arm strength. Currently 79 overall on player page.

tl;dr - I could list other examples but basically I believe a QB only needs to be above average in a large combination of the attributes I listed for the above examples. No one trait is a make or break. On my teams quarterbacks with average attributes can perform sufficiently well in the regular season but have been unable to win me any championships (and are more prone to worse performances against good defenses in the playoffs), which is why I still value above average to lower elite quarterbacks. Quarterbacks certainly are not a premium but you can't gloss over them either.

What sets above average quarterbacks (in terms of rating) apart from other above average quarterbacks is the scheme and quality of players around him. In other words, you can build a team around a quarterback and game plan to make him play better than his apparent rating, but in crunch time a very good quarterback with a proper team/good game planning will outperform mediocre quarterbacks in the same situation.

Re: re: what's the difference?

By WarEagle
7/03/2016 7:30 pm
Chipped wrote:
... in crunch time a very good quarterback with a proper team/good game planning will outperform mediocre quarterbacks in the same situation.


I disagree. I have seen nothing in the hundreds of games I have watched to support this theory.