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Main - General MFN Discussion

Re: 4.6 Passing Issues by the Data

By setherick - League Admin
12/04/2021 10:30 am
The biggest problem I have with all of the changes in versions 4.2 > 4.5 is that they were 90% addressed. For those that don't know, the increased drops for passes over 10 yards and the OL penalties exist because long passes dominated < 4.4 versions of the game.

Pass coverage was improved with B&R added for hand fighting downfield, which improved this significantly, but eventually WRs would win hand fights and get open deep. So the solution just have the WR drop the ball if it got there and not have OL not block on long passing plays.

The real solution should have been, and still is, make the safety play the deep ball instead of staying at 10-15 yards deep.
Last edited at 12/04/2021 10:31 am

Re: 4.6 Passing Issues by the Data

By Smirt211
12/04/2021 10:58 am
Admiral is the MJF of MFN.

...someone cut his microphone! lol j/k Good natured comparison.

Re: 4.6 Passing Issues by the Data

By setherick - League Admin
12/04/2021 11:36 am
Let's just keep this thread going even though it'll never be responded too.

The other reason that the OL penalties for medium and long passes need to be removed is because you can't properly space the field anymore on passing plays.

Most short passes put all the receivers in the same spot or at least the same zone and level. This is really bad in 4.6 for 2 reasons: (1) magnet coverage - I have no idea how this is supposed to work but what I see is every defender guarding the WR that is getting the ball and (2) players react immediately when a ball is thrown - this change was silly.

If I'm playing tight inside coverage on a downfield play, my attention is on the receiver I'm guarding and watching the receiver's eyes to know when I need to turn to the ball. Here's what we get instead: https://bigdata.myfootballnow.com/forums/1/25?page=10&x=0KSf4mShfk#608

If I were inclined, I'd do the math to figure out how much faster the defenders get to the play than the ball, but this seems so obviously broken that the average person should realize that 60 mph (the average release speed of the football in the NFL) is faster than 15-20 mph which is how fast an NFL player can run.
Last edited at 12/04/2021 11:40 am

Re: 4.6 Passing Issues by the Data

By Mcbolt55
12/04/2021 12:10 pm
Long passes were still a viable option in 4.5, and medium passes still work in 4.6. By definition it should be more difficult if not impossible to sack “short” passes, if that truly means a 3 step drop and quick release, but by the same token, those passes should be limited in how likely it is for a target to break out a big gain, or more likely to result in a defensive player being able to “jump” the route or just more traffic getting the way in general because everything happens closer together on a short field.

The longer the pass play, the more pressure should get to the qb, but the risk reward factor should increase as well. In 4.5 it was very difficult to get consistent pressure unless you were one of the 6 teams in the league with stud pass rushers, now in 4.6 it is likely too easy. There should be a middle ground where teams can attempt to throw deep and most teams average about 3 sacks a game…

Re: 4.6 Passing Issues by the Data

By TheAdmiral
12/04/2021 12:11 pm
Smirt211 wrote:
New York Sports Talk Radio had a multi-decade host on WFAN whom was known for his bluster: Mike Francesa.

Admiral is dug in deep and knows things better than he did then, however, on Day 1 he was full of arrogance kicking to CJ and I how the game works when we had at that juncture easily 100 titles between us.

Day 1 of his actual appearance on the website.


Take some advice from Elsa

"Let it go"

Re: 4.6 Passing Issues by the Data

By setherick - League Admin
12/04/2021 12:14 pm
Mcbolt55 wrote:
Long passes were still a viable option in 4.5, and medium passes still work in 4.6.


The only plays that work are the ones where the QB immediately checks down to the RB. There are no medium or long passes in 4.5 that work where the QB targets a WR or TE first except where the WR or TE runs a short route, including the 122 WR Deep where the TE runs a 5 yard out (not a medium route).

The longer the pass play, the more pressure should get to the qb, but the risk reward factor should increase as well. In 4.5 it was very difficult to get consistent pressure unless you were one of the 6 teams in the league with stud pass rushers, now in 4.6 it is likely too easy. There should be a middle ground where teams can attempt to throw deep and most teams average about 3 sacks a game…


I disagree about 4.5. The clean% for most long passing plays in 4.5 was 60-75%, which is pitiful. And medium passing plays were at 75 ~ 85% (absolute max). The medium passing plays with that high of a clean% went to the RB almost immediately before the pass rush could develop.
Last edited at 12/04/2021 12:16 pm

Re: 4.6 Passing Issues by the Data

By Mcbolt55
12/04/2021 12:16 pm
And that comes back to the coding logic where the qb looks to whatever route is completed first instead of logically following a progression based on what the play is classified as

Re: 4.6 Passing Issues by the Data

By Mcbolt55
12/04/2021 12:19 pm
I think that last point u r making is the same thing I said

Re: 4.6 Passing Issues by the Data

By setherick - League Admin
12/04/2021 12:21 pm
Mcbolt55 wrote:
I think that last point u r making is the same thing I said


Oh, maybe, I may have misread it. :)

Re: 4.6 Passing Issues by the Data

By setherick - League Admin
12/04/2021 12:43 pm
TheAdmiral wrote:


Run the data and see?


I forgot that past me already did this. Here's three season of League of Legends data that I created when testing a script to automate updating my database: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1U7EVGkVfQVkOh8KB-k80wcdi1e1dSnLo/view

Let's play find the viable long passes.