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Main - General MFN Discussion

Re: Poll

By setherick - League Admin
9/21/2021 8:14 pm
So I lied. I did the top 3 teams in Victory from last season in terms of total yards thrown before I got bored.

Data: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZGDPeA8T5QVQqiLsQOjjq8NrBi8nYQTv/view?usp=sharing

If you want to see the data for your own team. And so no one can accuse me of having a competitive advantage (I'm looking at you smirt). Just install SQLite and SQLite studio and do it yourself.

Parsing script: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1REQZbpbMRMqqpLe5LM7aFw6TO8QsNDoeYr70e7apUh8/edit?usp=sharing

SQL view: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aA6CGsOHt4S5s9PANPLSkqRLrRrkhWEk2YfnfjkhEOQ/edit?usp=sharing

Let me know if you see any bugs in the parsing script. It's been two years since I created it.
Last edited at 9/21/2021 8:15 pm

Re: Poll

By Infinity on Trial
9/21/2021 8:15 pm
I understand wanting 4.6 to be better. There are some things to like. Fewer drops, for instance. The running game is amped.

Unfortunately, there are a number of changes that make 4.6 a "one step forward and two steps back" product. The passing numbers are clear: Fewer viable plays for fewer yards and fewer completions with a lot more sacks.

I think there are a couple of things JDB could do to dramatically improve 4.6 and relieve those concerns. The fact that he admittedly has given up on the product (more than a year ago?) says all you need to know about 4.6. But at least we can look forward to the new UI.

Re: Poll

By Infinity on Trial
9/21/2021 8:59 pm
Also, was just looking at the one full season I had with this beta code in mfn1, and realized I ran for more than 4,300 yards at more than 6 yards per carry. I'm ready to party like it's 1930 if you all are.

Re: Poll

By setherick - League Admin
9/21/2021 9:05 pm
Infinity on Trial wrote:
Also, was just looking at the one full season I had with this beta code in mfn1, and realized I ran for more than 4,300 yards at more than 6 yards per carry. I'm ready to party like it's 1930 if you all are.


No one will have to complain about me getting X number of sacks with a LB at DE when I can get 33 with a guy that had < 50 SP.

Re: Poll

By TheAdmiral
9/22/2021 5:11 am
Firstly Setherick, thanks for sharing. That alone is much appreciated. I'll take a deeper look later today (am in the UK right now) and if it's not too much of a faff (ie time heavy) I might produce a weekly scouting report for my owners, with a breakdown of all 16 games.

As far as I remember, both yourself and Infinity took a look at BETA in the first season of 4.6 - I know at some point you've both played in at least one of my Leagues. In the first season or two because of the tweaks to the game engine, you could get a lot of rushing yards and a lot of sacks. However, that pushed owners into looking at both their Offensive and Defensive lines and improving the quality on both.

If you look at the rushing stats, you'll see that the League average is around about 120 yards per game over four seasons. Whilst sacks have gone done from around six per game, (when I started recording it) to approx. 4.5 per game now. There will always be statistical anomalies and outliers but no team has averaged more than 3.9 sacks per game over the last two seasons - prior to that we had a season with a 5.4, 4.9, 4.4(*2), 4.2 and a 4.1.

So, contrary to your scaremongering, running whilst improved is not easy and sacks are not out of control. They're both (largely) where they should be - yes we have a statistical anomaly/outlier at the top end with initially four teams averaging over 185 yards per game rushing, this dropped to two teams in each of the last two seasons. So, yes it can be tough to stop but not as out of control as you imply.

What I would say is that players in BETA now have to more than speed to produce results.

Finally for those that think you can't pass in BETA, here's a game from todays turnspin - take a look, you might even enjoy it.

https://lol.myfootballnow.com/watch/3518#626717

Re: Poll

By raymattison21
9/22/2021 5:24 am
No joke I thought jdb changed the code for that game. And our qb fell apart after 33 pass attempts otherwise we would have had over 400 pass yards. To be contrary we run a 237 pounder at a version of nickel back and he was torched deep by a 79 speed wr running out of the slot. I might need to think that strat over.

And I get the complaints of Seth and infinity as they are not completely wrong.but I agree with admiral...33 sacks hasn’t been seen in a long time and you can Derrick Henry guys to death but nfl coaches know they have to stop the run or they will lose too.

See in 4.6 stop the run and guys will pass better. I will say it again...I just don’t see that sort of balance in 4.5. It’s more like stop the pass and get lucky to stop the run. Either way the stats are here in this game to prove it. Generally our scheme is to stop the run and neither really worked that game.


Re: Poll

By raymattison21
9/22/2021 5:27 am
Infinity on Trial wrote:
Also, was just looking at the one full season I had with this beta code in mfn1, and realized I ran for more than 4,300 yards at more than 6 yards per carry. I'm ready to party like it's 1930 if you all are.


This is if you play the pass defenses of 4.5 that do decent vs the run. Not on this version. Play some run defenses and those number get cut in half.

But I agree run blocks are held too long and the run blocking/run defense ratings are deprecated because of it.

Re: Poll

By raymattison21
9/22/2021 5:32 am
setherick wrote:
Infinity on Trial wrote:
Also, was just looking at the one full season I had with this beta code in mfn1, and realized I ran for more than 4,300 yards at more than 6 yards per carry. I'm ready to party like it's 1930 if you all are.


No one will have to complain about me getting X number of sacks with a LB at DE when I can get 33 with a guy that had < 50 SP.


Yeah that’s if you selected a lot of long passes .... or overuse a lot of plays.

But yes something needs a tweak in those 7 plus step drop scenarios. The only ones that don’t get sacked at ridiculous rates are the play actions and ones were the Y is lined up in a tighter set. The QBs could certainly be smarter in those situations with either a scramble, throw away or dump off. Really just taking a shot down field would help too.

Re: Poll

By raymattison21
9/22/2021 7:00 am
raymattison21 wrote:
No joke I thought jdb changed the code for that game. And our qb fell apart after 33 pass attempts otherwise we would have had over 400 pass yards. To be contrary we run a 237 pounder at a version of nickel back and he was torched deep by a 79 speed wr running out of the slot. I might need to think that strat over.

And I get the complaints of Seth and infinity as they are not completely wrong.but I agree with admiral...33 sacks hasn’t been seen in a long time and you can Derrick Henry guys to death but nfl coaches know they have to stop the run or they will lose too.

See in 4.6 stop the run and guys will pass better. I will say it again...I just don’t see that sort of balance in 4.5. It’s more like stop the pass and get lucky to stop the run. Either way the stats are here in this game to prove it. Generally our scheme is to stop the run and neither really worked that game.




Granted, combined both teams blitzed on or over 75% of all snaps. A pretty high number compared to the nfl and probably one of the few ways to get a lot of pass yards on this beta version

Re: Poll

By setherick - League Admin
9/22/2021 7:31 am
TheAdmiral wrote:

If you look at the rushing stats, you'll see that the League average is around about 120 yards per game over four seasons. Whilst sacks have gone done from around six per game, (when I started recording it) to approx. 4.5 per game now. There will always be statistical anomalies and outliers but no team has averaged more than 3.9 sacks per game over the last two seasons - prior to that we had a season with a 5.4, 4.9, 4.4(*2), 4.2 and a 4.1.

So, contrary to your scaremongering, running whilst improved is not easy and sacks are not out of control. They're both (largely) where they should be - yes we have a statistical anomaly/outlier at the top end with initially four teams averaging over 185 yards per game rushing, this dropped to two teams in each of the last two seasons. So, yes it can be tough to stop but not as out of control as you imply.


So teams have to concentrate on the run to keep teams below 200 YPC, and passing is still that bad? You continue to make my point.

For what it's worth, I joined all the beta leagues after the speed change to see what the changes were going to be like in 4.6, and the experience was so awful that I'm pretty sure I left within the same season. I may have been on for two seasons, but as soon as I noticed that DEs were FASTER (legit they move faster) than WRs with a higher SP score, I didn't see a point in sticking around.
Last edited at 9/22/2021 7:52 am