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Main - General MFN Discussion

Re: MFN is becoming not worth playing!

By TheAdmiral
9/07/2021 7:31 pm
You do realise the 40 time is with no-one in the way, no hand fighting, no bump and run, no adjustments to make a catch etc.

Re: MFN is becoming not worth playing!

By setherick - League Admin
9/07/2021 8:03 pm
TheAdmiral wrote:
You do realise the 40 time is with no-one in the way, no hand fighting, no bump and run, no adjustments to make a catch etc.


No one was hand fighting on this play. WRs traveled < 10 yards in 3 seconds: https://victory.myfootballnow.com/watch/717#128372

Same thing this play: https://lol.myfootballnow.com/watch/2259#396822

I pointed these out in this thread almost a year ago, and nothing was done about it: https://mfn1.myfootballnow.com/forums/6/2184?page=1

This is my favorite comparison play. Watch Ty Hilton break coverage and run 45 yards in 5 seconds to catch a game winner: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0MWmLl2_Ac&t=42s&ab_channel=CollinTelesz

So 40 time still means a whole lot when it comes to game speed.

This play took 2 seconds: https://youtu.be/N3rMNPUIZSE?t=25

Ball is snapped, Brees throws it almost immediately downfield to the spot where the WR is going to break wide open.
Last edited at 9/07/2021 8:25 pm

Re: MFN is becoming not worth playing!

By Infinity on Trial
9/07/2021 8:37 pm
I've been advocating for a universal speed fix for years, predating several versions of code. The entire game is irreparable until there are more realistic speed ranges for each position set. As I've said many times, the slowest CB in the league should be faster than the fastest OL/DL.

Re: MFN is becoming not worth playing!

By Beercloud
9/09/2021 2:21 pm
https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/lists/2021-nfl-draft-fastest-40-yard-dash-position/
or
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2019-nfl-combine-top-40-yard-dash-times-at-each-position-as-unheralded-safety-posts-fastest-run-at-indy/

Pads not included.
Last edited at 9/09/2021 2:23 pm

Re: MFN is becoming not worth playing!

By GrandadB
9/09/2021 4:42 pm
setherick wrote:
Because in real life that 4.3 wide receiver is going to take 4.3 seconds to travel 8 yards... #betacode


should also include the acceleration factor and quickness to simulate RL, especially in first 5 yds.

Re: MFN is becoming not worth playing!

By CrazySexyBeast
9/15/2021 9:24 pm
Just going to pull from the 2 comments that struck me as most important.

setherick wrote:
The problem with speed, and the solution to it, is that it's not physically fixed and players are not generate on a bell curve based on it. If speed worked correctly, for example, a 4.2 second 40 yard dash would be a SP of 100 and basically unachievable. A 4.21 40 would be 99, etc. That would mean a SP of 50 would be a 4.7 40 yard dash and a SP of 0 would be 5.2 seconds. All of these times would be fixed on physical points, so you would know how fast a player actually was on the game field.


TheAdmiral wrote:
You do realise the 40 time is with no-one in the way, no hand fighting, no bump and run, no adjustments to make a catch etc.


I beleive setherick has the absolute solution. I agree that speed should be directly quantified. My thoughts are that IF (huge if) speed is directly relative to a 40 time, THEN the other related attributes magnify (ie: BRC vs BRA etc). Quite certain this would be an ideal situation, and would require minds much greater than mine to write the code required to seperate, and then integrate speed as a direct correlation and how it relates towards the current attribute codes.
IF i'm even on the right track. ;)
My faith is in JDB and our community, and we are all dealing with some growth pains. If you've played for so **** long, why give up when the game is at an obvious and crucial development stage? Perserverance creates glory :)
Stay amazing, amigos.
It'l get figured it. The tough stuff always has - not always with the most desired results.

Re: MFN is becoming not worth playing!

By raymattison21
9/16/2021 7:05 am
A better representation of speed here compared to reality has been asked for numerous times before. Personally for me 7 real years has passed and still the same formula has been used . Parts tweaked but the most influential one was raising the value of zero speed

Re: MFN is becoming not worth playing!

By setherick - League Admin
9/16/2021 7:21 pm
raymattison21 wrote:
A better representation of speed here compared to reality has been asked for numerous times before. Personally for me 7 real years has passed and still the same formula has been used . Parts tweaked but the most influential one was raising the value of zero speed


But the value of zero speed wasn't raised, the parabolic curve was just flattened. That's why WRs are now slower than DEs...

Re: MFN is becoming not worth playing!

By raymattison21
9/16/2021 8:39 pm
setherick wrote:
raymattison21 wrote:
A better representation of speed here compared to reality has been asked for numerous times before. Personally for me 7 real years has passed and still the same formula has been used . Parts tweaked but the most influential one was raising the value of zero speed


But the value of zero speed wasn't raised, the parabolic curve was just flattened. That's why WRs are now slower than DEs...



I wonder why jdb wouldn’t just call it that. Doesn’t sound like him to use different words . Those are two different things no? And Wrs wouldn’t be slower if something wasn’t slowing them down initially. It just a part added that had to be made more powerful cause of the gaps in speed due to weight. What is the difference if that part had less of an affect. The end result would be closer to rl but yes not perfect

Re: MFN is becoming not worth playing!

By setherick - League Admin
9/16/2021 8:43 pm
No, they aren't different things. If you "raise the 0 speed" [the X axis on a parabolic curve] what you end with is a flattened parabolic curve. That is top speed [the Y apex on the parabolic curve] gets closer to 0. Which means that your top speed moves slower in relation to all other speeds not your slowest speed moves faster.

But here's when I gave up on playing in beta leagues:

setherick wrote:
The other area of concern with WR speed and OL blocking for me is that there are no viable long passes.

Oh, seth, don't be hyperbolic. Where are the numbers to back it up?

Here.

Formation -- Passing Play -- Play Distance -- Comp -- Att -- Comp% -- Clean% -- Sacks -- Pressures
5 -- Shotgun 5 Wide 5 WR Deep Ins -- Long -- 1 -- 2 -- 50 -- 20 -- 3 -- 1
5 -- Shotgun 5 Wide 5 WR Corner Post -- Long -- 0 -- 4 -- 0 -- 28.57 -- 3 -- 2
14 -- Singleback Empty 4 TE Deep Out -- Long -- 2 -- 3 -- 66.67 -- 60 -- 2 -- 0
113 -- Singleback Normal Deep Corners -- Long -- 0 -- 2 -- 0 -- 66.67 -- 1 -- 0
113 -- Singleback Slot Strong All Go -- Long -- 0 -- 1 -- 0 -- 50 -- 1 -- 0
203 -- I Formation 3WR WR Post -- Long -- 0 -- 1 -- 0 -- 33.33 -- 2 -- 0
203 -- I Formation 3WR Deep Corner/Post -- Long -- 0 -- 2 -- 0 -- 16.67 -- 4 -- 1
212 -- I Formation Twin WR Slot Out -- Long -- 0 -- 3 -- 0 -- 66.67 -- 0 -- 1
212 -- Weak I Normal All Go -- Long -- 0 -- 1 -- 0 -- 33.33 -- 2 -- 0
Last edited at 9/16/2021 8:48 pm