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Re: MFN is getting destroyed

By raymattison21
4/15/2017 8:29 am
What about running a spread set vs. His goaline blitz . How about using a mobile QB and running on third downs. Blitzes give unneeded boosts to cover guys....the next code is a bit better .

What I don't like about blitzes is the guys coming up the middle can pass right through the line unimpeded . It's not that easy unless the dline creates proper spacing. The nfl uses stunts to create confusion . .....here Blitzes B line it right to the guy with the ball.

Counters , fakes, delays do not work as intended . Defenders just do not bite. An end around or a pitch back would get lit up by a blitz . A screen....the QB would probably get tackled before the throw.

Still, a triple option would destroy as long as correct decisions were made by the qb. Outside blitz . ...give it to the FB. Inside blitz either have the QB turn up field or pitch it to the hb.....safety /cb blitz and throw the ball to the vacated area.

We do not the these plays.......just overpowered blitzes . .....heck these guys could run that pitch play where the CB gets sucked in.

Still the test code looks at alot of this, but without the ability to change game plans mid game anight owner has to have a balanceD book

Re: MFN is getting destroyed

By eyeballll
4/15/2017 1:04 pm
I would like to add to the discussion that 'Limited Playbook' and 'Play Overuse' is the main issue here. The owner in question here used 5 defensive plays and 15 offensive plays in the game, which is ridiculous. I have been beating this dead horse for a while now, but I do think this is the real issue here.

I'm in a new league where the champion went 15-1 and breezed through the playoffs. How did he do it? In his 3 playoff games, he used a total of 6 defensive plays. He used one play 84 times, and another one 69 times.

Very few teams using this strategy, but the ones that do use it generally win championships. I do understand that JDB has spent much thought and effort fixing this issue and I really appreciate that. I have suggested limiting the amount of times a play can be used in a game, and I still think it's a good idea. I don't get frustrated easily, but losing to a team that is just lazily using the same play OVER and OVER gets really frustrating.

Again, not many teams are doing it, but it has to stop. This BS 'strategy' is ruining a great game for a lot of owners.

Re: MFN is getting destroyed

By Booger926
4/15/2017 1:25 pm
eyeballll wrote:
I would like to add to the discussion that 'Limited Playbook' and 'Play Overuse' is the main issue here. The owner in question here used 5 defensive plays and 15 offensive plays in the game, which is ridiculous. I have been beating this dead horse for a while now, but I do think this is the real issue here.

I'm in a new league where the champion went 15-1 and breezed through the playoffs. How did he do it? In his 3 playoff games, he used a total of 6 defensive plays. He used one play 84 times, and another one 69 times.

Very few teams using this strategy, but the ones that do use it generally win championships. I do understand that JDB has spent much thought and effort fixing this issue and I really appreciate that. I have suggested limiting the amount of times a play can be used in a game, and I still think it's a good idea. I don't get frustrated easily, but losing to a team that is just lazily using the same play OVER and OVER gets really frustrating.

Again, not many teams are doing it, but it has to stop. This BS 'strategy' is ruining a great game for a lot of owners.


Although, in real life, I would continue to run one play until my opponent found a way to stop it, I do not believe this should be the case for this sim. One way to fix this is if a team uses a play over and over, then the opposing team should be getting a bonus towards their familiarity with that play in an attempt in stopping it.

I personally like the idea that if a team uses a play more than 1 times, then they lose 10% of their familiarity with the play while the other team gains 10% of their familiarity in stopping the play. And if every time the team abused a flaw, they continue to lose 10% while the other gained 10%....soon abuse would stop. For example;
100% familiarity vs 10% familiarity
90% vs 11%
81% vs 13%
72% vs 15%
64% vs 17%
57% vs 19%
51% vs 21%
45% vs 24%
40% vs 27%
36% vs 30%

Re: MFN is getting destroyed

By setherick - League Admin
4/15/2017 6:46 pm
Ky3217 wrote:
setherick wrote:
Ky3217 wrote:
WarEagle wrote:
I just want to say that I don't have an issue with the scores being put up by this user. Lopsided scores are going to happen, though usually not to this extreme.

My issue is with the gameplan being used. You shouldn't be able to win a game with playcalling like this.


Definitely this. Blowouts happen all the time. Huge blowouts happen occasionally too.

It's the gameplan that's ridiculous


But, back to one of my previous points, I was able to put up 80 points twice in what is supposed to be the best league on MFN. And that was using a game plan that used something like 35 plays per game on average and, while it was more heavily slanted to the pass than most NFL teams, was not that far off of the NFL leaders in run/pass percentage. The problem is that it's really easy to exploit pass defenses when your opponent doesn't have enough DBs to keep their players rested.

I'm going to put together an Air Coryell system for MFN-1 and Beta-87 this next season to test whether or not the passing defensive changes make a bigger difference. I may also put together Air Coryell for MFN-1 and an Air Raid offense in 87.


If you can do that with a legitimate gameplay and by taking advantage of the passing team's roster deficiencies that's different. That doesn't bother me.


Why does it matter if I can do it with a limited gameplan or a full gameplan? Both game plans expose the same flaws in code.

PLEASE NOTE: I in no way condone limited game plan offenses or defenses. It's just in this case, I know how to more or less replicate the results being discussed without creating a limited game plan.

Now, if someone wanted to beat Spacehorse's offense, here's what I would suggest creating three rules:

1) Against the 014 and 104 sets, I would run the Dime Blitz 2 play. I would override my DEs to the inside and move my fastest, best pass rushing LBs to the DE for dime sets.
2) Against the 113 and 203, I would run the Nickle, Blitz 2, M2M play.
3) Against the 212 and 122, I would run the Nickle Strong CB3 Double LB blitz.

And only those plays.
Last edited at 4/15/2017 6:47 pm

Re: MFN is getting destroyed

By WarEagle
4/15/2017 7:59 pm
An immediate and temporary fix would be for JDB to add code so that a play (any play) WILL NOT be called more than 5 times in one game.

This is not the best or most elegant option for a permanent solution, but it could be done immediately.

It would be much better to play with this limitation until he finds a better way to address the issue than to just allow this to continue.

The fact that this type of gameplanning/playcalling is still even able to be used as a "winning stragegy" after months of complaints (and owners dropping teams/leaving) speaks volumes.
Last edited at 4/15/2017 8:00 pm

Re: MFN is getting destroyed

By setherick - League Admin
4/15/2017 8:04 pm
WarEagle wrote:

The fact that this type of gameplanning/playcalling is still even able to be used as a "winning stragegy" after months of complaints (and owners dropping teams/leaving) speaks volumes.


I completely agree with this, but I think there are really two conversations here. One is the limited game plan, and the second is the passing exploits.

The simple matter is that you cannot run an exploit offense based on the run. It's too easy to stop. I built a run based offense in 19 almost a calendar year ago that destroyed everyone until I got to Infinity and Bryson who figured out how to immediately shut it down. (That offense may, coincidentally, be the start of the blitz every down craze we see now -- Bryson at least thinks so.) [Years 2020 and 2021: https://mfn19.myfootballnow.com/team/view/10]

You really can't do that with a pass based offense. Even the games I lost in 75 were shootouts. My opponent managed to win by scoring more and forcing more turnovers, but didn't really shut down my offense. Passing attacks, especially when you know the holes in a defense, are ridiculous (even with QBs throwing huge numbers of INTs -- which has an easy solution, crappy Accuracy QBs).
Last edited at 4/15/2017 8:07 pm

Re: MFN is getting destroyed

By Bryson10
4/15/2017 8:04 pm
Problem is is the owner doing this has joined tons of leagues, hard to avoid i guess. Sad i knew exactly who it was when eyeball posted this, smh.

Re: MFN is getting destroyed

By Gustoon
4/16/2017 1:44 am
setherick wrote:
Ky3217 wrote:
setherick wrote:
Ky3217 wrote:
WarEagle wrote:
I just want to say that I don't have an issue with the scores being put up by this user. Lopsided scores are going to happen, though usually not to this extreme.

My issue is with the gameplan being used. You shouldn't be able to win a game with playcalling like this.


Definitely this. Blowouts happen all the time. Huge blowouts happen occasionally too.

It's the gameplan that's ridiculous


But, back to one of my previous points, I was able to put up 80 points twice in what is supposed to be the best league on MFN. And that was using a game plan that used something like 35 plays per game on average and, while it was more heavily slanted to the pass than most NFL teams, was not that far off of the NFL leaders in run/pass percentage. The problem is that it's really easy to exploit pass defenses when your opponent doesn't have enough DBs to keep their players rested.

I'm going to put together an Air Coryell system for MFN-1 and Beta-87 this next season to test whether or not the passing defensive changes make a bigger difference. I may also put together Air Coryell for MFN-1 and an Air Raid offense in 87.


If you can do that with a legitimate gameplay and by taking advantage of the passing team's roster deficiencies that's different. That doesn't bother me.


Why does it matter if I can do it with a limited gameplan or a full gameplan? Both game plans expose the same flaws in code.

PLEASE NOTE: I in no way condone limited game plan offenses or defenses. It's just in this case, I know how to more or less replicate the results being discussed without creating a limited game plan.

Now, if someone wanted to beat Spacehorse's offense, here's what I would suggest creating three rules:

1) Against the 014 and 104 sets, I would run the Dime Blitz 2 play. I would override my DEs to the inside and move my fastest, best pass rushing LBs to the DE for dime sets.
2) Against the 113 and 203, I would run the Nickle, Blitz 2, M2M play.
3) Against the 212 and 122, I would run the Nickle Strong CB3 Double LB blitz.

And only those plays.


Because it's how to beat in a player playing football, not how to beat the code.
I'd say a huge chunk of us here are here because of our love of football and not gaming.
I will continue to play the game as intended, and if I get beat by one of these morons, I get beat and it's another bad day at the MFN office. I have confidence that JDB will address this and put things right eventually.

Re: MFN is getting destroyed

By Pernbronze
4/16/2017 4:39 am
What if it was made that coaches dropped when under a certain amount of plays and that players dropped after a massive amount of calls. So you want to call limited plays fine, but pay the price. Or perhaps just make it so players can't grow without a certain number of plays called a game. No growth seems to be more in line with reality.
Last edited at 4/16/2017 4:41 am

Re: MFN is getting destroyed

By setherick - League Admin
4/16/2017 7:13 am
Gustoon wrote:

Because it's how to beat in a player playing football, not how to beat the code.
I'd say a huge chunk of us here are here because of our love of football and not gaming.
I will continue to play the game as intended, and if I get beat by one of these morons, I get beat and it's another bad day at the MFN office. I have confidence that JDB will address this and put things right eventually.


All of v.0.4 is about beating the code. Seriously, game planning has become how can I get the Ai not to eff me. For instance, I have my game plan set up to call my plays equally across personnel set, and then use the distance matrix to control what group of plays I choose from.

In my playoff game in 75, I had 55 dropbacks where my QB did not run (52 throws, 3 sacks). I called three passing plays 15 times during those dropbacks. That's ridiculous to me since (1) they were medium passing plays and I favor short passing and (2) I use my full playbook and want MORE plays to choose from.