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Re: Underweight DEs

By Bryson10
10/15/2016 1:55 pm
Ya when I scouted my game against that online and dline I thought for sure my oline that are big and strong would push them around. That was not the case at all. This is just an example though as many other coaches are moving cb's to dline and tightends to receivers. I think there needs to be a fix for this cause it's getting out of hand and turning me off to the game. I like building a roster organically with guys that are legitimately built for the positions I want them to play. If I ever draft a convert it's with the caviat that it's a long term project and not a starter. I hope there's a solution to the underweight converts having too much success

Re: Underweight DEs

By eyeballll
10/15/2016 2:29 pm
I do think there is credence to the comment that strength doesn't mean enough. Perhaps amping up the strength and weight attributes and making them mean more in the actual game is a solution.

I'm curious what you guys think of not being able to change positions outside position groups. I don't mind ILB and OLB's swapping, it's the CB to DL that I have a problem with.

Again, we are playing football, and what works in Real Actual Football should be the determining factor in what is implemented here. When was the last time a CB was put on the DLine in the NFL? Ever? If it doesn't work there, it shouldn't work, or even be allowed, here.

It's ironic that we are given the freedom to screw things up, and then we ***** that things are screwed up. This is one example, but not the only one.

Re: Underweight DEs

By setherick - League Admin
10/15/2016 3:06 pm
There are a lot of swaps that make sense in the game:

QB --> RB
RB <--> WR
TE <--> FB
CB <--> SS <--> FS
DE <--> LB

But then there are some swaps that will never happen in this game like you cannot switch a QB to WR a la Matt Jones, Antwan Randle El or Terrell Pryor.

So, yeah, I like swapping positions, but the logic of swapping positions is incomplete and most illogical (DB --> DL for instance). If physical size (height + weight to go back to Ray's comment) were factored in, the code would prevent the swap because the player would not be within x% of the changed to position.

Re: Underweight DEs

By raymattison21
10/15/2016 6:00 pm
setherick wrote:
There are a lot of swaps that make sense in the game:

QB --> RB
RB <--> WR
TE <--> FB
CB <--> SS <--> FS
DE <--> LB

But then there are some swaps that will never happen in this game like you cannot switch a QB to WR a la Matt Jones, Antwan Randle El or Terrell Pryor.

So, yeah, I like swapping positions, but the logic of swapping positions is incomplete and most illogical (DB --> DL for instance). If physical size (height + weight to go back to Ray's comment) were factored in, the code would prevent the swap because the player would not be within x% of the changed to position.



I do not like bonuses or caps like that, but anything else is base code.

Guys are limited in ways here, but this points to weight not doing enough for strength while penalizing speed too much.

Its a biproduct of the design. I think?. Putting more of an emphisis on speed being effected by weight has increased the effectiness on strength on weight. IMO

When in realiy it is the frame combined with the demands that dictates max speed, strength, and the ability to preform on anygiven snap.

I love what he has done ,but using only weight widen the range of players that can meet these physical demands. Opening up door for abuse that is there to make up for the lack of any positives for weight.




Re: Underweight DEs

By blackflys
10/15/2016 6:05 pm
eyeballll wrote:
I do think there is credence to the comment that strength doesn't mean enough. Perhaps amping up the strength and weight attributes and making them mean more in the actual game is a solution.

I'm curious what you guys think of not being able to change positions outside position groups. I don't mind ILB and OLB's swapping, it's the CB to DL that I have a problem with.

Again, we are playing football, and what works in Real Actual Football should be the determining factor in what is implemented here. When was the last time a CB was put on the DLine in the NFL? Ever? If it doesn't work there, it shouldn't work, or even be allowed, here.

It's ironic that we are given the freedom to screw things up, and then we ***** that things are screwed up. This is one example, but not the only one.


Tha the best idea I've heared. And a simple solution

Re: Underweight DEs

By raymattison21
10/15/2016 10:11 pm
blackflys wrote:
eyeballll wrote:
I do think there is credence to the comment that strength doesn't mean enough. Perhaps amping up the strength and weight attributes and making them mean more in the actual game is a solution.

I'm curious what you guys think of not being able to change positions outside position groups. I don't mind ILB and OLB's swapping, it's the CB to DL that I have a problem with.

Again, we are playing football, and what works in Real Actual Football should be the determining factor in what is implemented here. When was the last time a CB was put on the DLine in the NFL? Ever? If it doesn't work there, it shouldn't work, or even be allowed, here.

It's ironic that we are given the freedom to screw things up, and then we ***** that things are screwed up. This is one example, but not the only one.


Tha the best idea I've heared. And a simple solution


I am barely hanging on already and this would be a tipping point. Sounds like capping linemens speed and we know how that turned out. Please JDB do not repeat the past.

Re: Underweight DEs

By blackflys
10/15/2016 10:26 pm
raymattison21 wrote:
blackflys wrote:
eyeballll wrote:
I do think there is credence to the comment that strength doesn't mean enough. Perhaps amping up the strength and weight attributes and making them mean more in the actual game is a solution.

I'm curious what you guys think of not being able to change positions outside position groups. I don't mind ILB and OLB's swapping, it's the CB to DL that I have a problem with.

Again, we are playing football, and what works in Real Actual Football should be the determining factor in what is implemented here. When was the last time a CB was put on the DLine in the NFL? Ever? If it doesn't work there, it shouldn't work, or even be allowed, here.

It's ironic that we are given the freedom to screw things up, and then we ***** that things are screwed up. This is one example, but not the only one.

S
Tha the best idea I've heared. And a simple solution


I am barely hanging on already and this would be a tipping point. Sounds like capping linemens speed and we know how that turned out. Please JDB do not repeat the past.


What are you talking about? That not what that means at all. Are you saying the tipping point is if there were restrictions on players being moved to different positions? Or the strength meaning more?

Also what makes anything a tipping point? All the problems are problems for everybody.., the good outweighs the bad in this game by far. The fact that there's live drafts and trading is a good enough reason to play this not to mention it's pretty **** realistic if you ask me.
Last edited at 10/15/2016 10:38 pm

Re: Underweight DEs

By eyeballll
10/16/2016 1:09 am
Well, I do think that something will eventually have to be done. I would be happy with strength being adjusted (amped up more with weight) to be more realistic, which is what Ray is looking for I think. I personally would endorse a position change freeze, but I think I'm in the minority.

I checked out Henry Fortune, the player that is #2 in the 75 in sacks, 21 sacks in 9 games. He's 210 pounds, and wasn't drafted. He's on a 4 yr deal that pay under 400k a year. I don't know what he was when he got picked up, but he's a killer rush end now! I admire the owner for figuring it out and picking him up, but the whole thing is kind of making a mockery of things, isn't it? And now that we know it works, guys are going to start copycatting this. It's the next big trend... WR's to DE's!

https://private75.myfootballnow.com/player/1387

Re: Underweight DEs

By raymattison21
10/16/2016 1:39 am
eyeballll wrote:
Well, I do think that something will eventually have to be done. I would be happy with strength being adjusted (amped up more with weight) to be more realistic, which is what Ray is looking for I think. I personally would endorse a position change freeze, but I think I'm in the minority.

I checked out Henry Fortune, the player that is #2 in the 75 in sacks, 21 sacks in 9 games. He's 210 pounds, and wasn't drafted. He's on a 4 yr deal that pay under 400k a year. I don't know what he was when he got picked up, but he's a killer rush end now! I admire the owner for figuring it out and picking him up, but the whole thing is kind of making a mockery of things, isn't it? And now that we know it works, guys are going to start copycatting this. It's the next big trend... WR's to DE's!

https://private75.myfootballnow.com/player/1387



There are many ways to skin a cat, and same as approaching this subject. There is a reason JDB has not done this simple fix yet. I do not know why but what i do know is if you amp up strength with size i already know of a way to exploit it.

This is not a question of the direct effect, but the unwanted side effect from weight making guys stronger.


In mfn 1 i could make all my guys smaller and take roll tides " rich get richer" trade, but i truely think it would hurt my team. That is not a broken game, but i game alot here and really feel this suggestion was implemented it would drive me out the door.

I put a bid on Fortune. He had value thats it. I want the future changes to be at a level of a complete game. As a suggestion, going in this direction would not fix what i feel is the root cause.

I would not change a thing before going this route. These allocations cannot be used as solid examples. The talent of players is garbage compared to MFN 1 . Fortune and that other garbage DT would be back in FA in 1 . The new code was tested there and forums were pretty quiet, besides me of course.

I have been on this for almost two real years. Very quite at times, but if somethings going to happen i want my opinion heard. I welcome others but swaying my stance is impossible.

Re: Underweight DEs

By setherick - League Admin
10/16/2016 6:34 am
We have been concentrating so much on applying physical weight to strength, which I think should be a much bigger modifier than it is. We haven't discussed that modified strength should be a much bigger modifier to pass blocking and run blocking than it is, especially pass blocking.

Currently, I don't think that strength is applied at all to pass blocking. I know that it's applied to run blocking where OL have to actually fire off the line, but I see 90-100 ST OL get pushed back by weaker DL all the time in pass block.

In fact, if you really want to wreck someone's passing game, an exploit you can use is get two 100 ST DT with no skills just to push the OL back into the QB. The pocket will collapse and the QB will be forced to roll right or left. In v.3.2, when the QB rolled, the OL would stop blocking meaning easy sack. In v.4, the OL holds the block slightly longer, but the QB still gets the under pressure penalty applied to him, which greatly reduces his accuracy. So, as long as you're fine with your DTs getting no stats, any 100 ST DTs will do.